Curse

countesscorpula · Dec 11, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Hey folks, I already know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but my disappointment in the current functionality of the skill pushes me to make the request.

The energy cost of Avatar of Melandru is 25. A dervishes unmodified enrgy pool is 25. Ok, fine, you get a coolio hefty skill for the cost of your entire enrgy pool, i can see that. Not a big complaint or problem... until you accumulate even the tiniest amount of DP. I hadn't noticed this on my own dervish (still exploring with my foreing characters), but it came as a painful realization when Melonni died once, and afterward she just kept dropping like a fly. I'm sitting there wondering, sh*t, she's supposed to have this extra 200hp, why is she going down so fast. I pull up her control window, and order her to use the avatar... OOOOHHhhh, she doesn't have enough energy. she's down to 22 of 27 (attunement rune). After just one death. ok...ummm. That's no good. I'm sorry, it just doesn't work. (no smart comments about "well don't die then" please).

The only other prior profession to have a skill wipe their entire energy pool is the ranger (QZ and 2 or 3 other skills). Thing is, they have expertise to easily offset that massive proportional cost. Dervishes don't have much in the way to allow them to use such an expensive skill after having accumulated even a small amount of dp. Even with attunement, it only takes 10%dp to make the skill unusable.

So, what i ask is that the cost be reduced to 20 energy from 25. 20energy still places it as the most expensive of all dervish skills, and a massive (though not complete) chunk of the dervish energy pool. It's already protected from abuse by being placed in the mysticism catagory (limiting effective use to dervishes), so i don't see this change being too much of a problem.

Alternative solution: If lowering the cost causes massive balance issues, i would suggest lowering it to 20, and reducing the health bonus to 150 from 200, or have the amount of health given relative to the level of mysticism.

But as it is, the skill becomes something that can be used in a very limited capacity.

(it was kind of sad to have one of my tanks become a VWbug after just one encounter with a particularly harsh elemental boss)

lyra_song · Dec 11, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Bring a staff for energy use in case of DP.

countesscorpula · Dec 11, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

ok for me... sucks for my heroes. We all know how easy it is to be switching of weapons sets for them.

That aside, do you see either of the two options presented as being promising?

lyra_song · Dec 11, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

ok for me... sucks for my heroes. We all know how easy it is to be switching of weapons sets for them.

That aside, do you see either of the two options presented as being promising?

I dont consider it enough of a problem to warrant changing the skill because the A.I. cant use it right.

The A.I. cant use any maintained enchantments. Does that mean that we need to tweak those too?

They work perfectly fine on human players.

Look up better dervish builds for the Heros, or dont use her at all.

Theres no need to tweak this skill. As it stands, this is the only skill that can stop the Searing Flames/Arcane Flames metagame and i doubt it will get reduced in cost.

twicky_kid · Dec 11, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I dont consider it enough of a problem to warrant changing the skill because the A.I. cant use it right.

The A.I. cant use any maintained enchantments. Does that mean that we need to tweak those too?

They work perfectly fine on human players.

Look up better dervish builds for the Heros, or dont use her at all.

Theres no need to tweak this skill. As it stands, this is the only skill that can stop the Searing Flames/Arcane Flames metagame and i doubt it will get reduced in cost.

The AI can use maintained enchantments. Suppress the enchantment and the hero will not cancel.

Avatar of Melandru cannot be changed due to pvp. He is an unstoppable machine in GvG. If anything it might get nerfed again.

draxynnic · Dec 11, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Actually, there is at least one other way to deal with SF: there's a Water skill that makes the user completely immune to Burning. But Melandru's complete immunity to conditions is still quite powerful.

It might be worth seeing if you can find any skills that can be used to reduce the energy cost. I don't think the glyphs will work, but Energising Winds does, although that is a bit fiddly. There may be others.

The short answer, though, is to consider finding another avatar. Balthazar and Dwayna both have some decent benefits for tanking, although Dwayna does require reasonably heavy skill usage to get full benefits from the healing.

countesscorpula · Dec 11, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

I'm fine with the short answer... but in the long run, when they consider nerfing HER again (as suggested by twicky), i was just hoping they might reduce the cost to 20 at the same time. Kind of like suggestion B Reduce health bonus to 150 and energy cost to 20. Is that objectionable as a solution?

ANd btw, nothing is an unstopable machine. Every build has a weakness.

Curse You · Dec 11, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

There's no such thing as a 20 energy skill.

countesscorpula · Dec 11, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

There's no such thing as a 20 energy skill.

OMG, you're right! They all jump from 15-25. Why is that? Why the heck not have a handful of 20energy skills? I mean... 5-10-15-25... we definately skipped a step there somewhere.

lyra_song · Dec 11, 2006, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

The AI can use maintained enchantments. Suppress the enchantment and the hero will not cancel.

AH ok, thanks ^_^

Priest Of Sin · Dec 11, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Melandru is already an extremely deadly shutdown for the assassin class (no poison, no bleeding, no deep wound, no blind, no dazed) and is the perfect melee character. Immune to blind? GG, he can keep slashing your guts out even if you use Blinding Flash or Suge on him. Currently the best way to shut him down is Edenial, because the skill has such a high energy cost.

/notsigned, +200hp and immunity to conditions is worth 25 energy

Navaros · Dec 11, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

I totally disagree with the initial nerfing to this skill.

It should definitely be unnerfed. 25 energy is ridiculous.

Should be 15 energy.

Sure it's hard to kill someone with no conditions on him --- that's why it's an elite skill.

Since there is no damage bonus, the Derv does not become a "killing machine" rather he is merely a "not dying" machine.

/signed for unnerfing Avatar of Melandru to 15 energy

Guardian of the Light · Dec 11, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

/signed

all the other gods got their cool combo

Lyssa with Arcane con

Dwayna with Mending Touch

Grenth with all the scythe attacks

and Balthazar with errrrr frenzy?

Why'd Melandru have to get nerfed for it's combo with weary strike?

dargon · Dec 11, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Why'd Melandru have to get nerfed for it's combo with weary strike?

It's not because of the combo that it got nerfed, it's because it completely shuts down another class (assassins). With a 200hp boost and immunity to all conditions, in an assassin vs form of melandru dervish, the only way the assassin will win is if they manage to attack the dervish while the skill is unusable. Any smart dervish would find and take out the assassin long before that. Form of Melandru + Wearying Strike + Heart of Fury = dead assassin. Just so you know, Heart of Fury makes that scythe swing pretty much as fast as daggers, every 1.17 seconds.

Navaros · Dec 11, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

^

So then why is the Assasin fighting the Dervish with that form on?

The Assasin could simply run away and/or not go near the Dervish while the form is up.

Saying "an elite skill temporarily stops another class from being able to kill the player for it's duration" is not a justifiable reason to nerf it.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 12, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

There really should be 20 energy skills, there are alot of over and underpriced skills right around that range, and it debilitates balance when a skill should be more powerful for 25 energy, or should cost less for its effect.

jummeth · Dec 12, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

if you want to have very minor balance changes, you can always make the skill cost 20en but make caster lose 5en in the process.

So the skill costs up to 25en, but you solve the DP thing, it still completely depletes your Energy bar like it should.

After all its one of the strongest forms. It should be quite costly.

HolyHawk · Dec 12, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I understand your concern about the energy base, but immunity to conditions is alone worth 25 energy. 200hp is just a bonus against spikes. It is one of the most balanced avatars in my opinion. It's not broken at all, and usable quite effectively in both pve and pvp. If you want a balance of skill, you should look after grenth's, which is way too powerfull right as it is now.

Nickhimself · Dec 12, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Make it 20 Energy, keep everything else the same.

shardfenix · Dec 12, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Avatar of melandru is fine. If anything, they should fix it so you never get conditions.